光熱(re)行業(ye)里很多(duo)(duo)企業(ye)都是自(zi)發(fa)的研究,國家(jia)沒有(you)投(tou)錢(qian),熬了幾年,并不是說(shuo)我們有(you)多(duo)(duo)大的收(shou)獲,有(you)多(duo)(duo)大的利(li)益才(cai)(cai)干這件事(shi),我們覺得這件事(shi)是利(li)國利(li)民的我們才(cai)(cai)做(zuo)。
關(guan)(guan)于光(guang)熱上網電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)的(de)(de)(de)(de)問(wen)題(ti)我覺得這(zhe)(zhe)個(ge)事情太(tai)難,跟示范電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)站攪在(zai)(zai)(zai)一(yi)起,有(you)(you)人想進(jin)示范電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)站,但(dan)是(shi)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)太(tai)低猶豫。有(you)(you)的(de)(de)(de)(de)想拿一(yi)個(ge)比(bi)較高的(de)(de)(de)(de)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia),但(dan)是(shi)又(you)不(bu)(bu)是(shi)示范電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)站。如果電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)低了我也要干,但(dan)你又(you)沒(mei)有(you)(you)進(jin)入示范電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)站的(de)(de)(de)(de)名(ming)單,怎么干?關(guan)(guan)于上網電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)的(de)(de)(de)(de)問(wen)題(ti),我覺得光(guang)熱發(fa)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)正處在(zai)(zai)(zai)一(yi)個(ge)非常(chang)初級的(de)(de)(de)(de)階(jie)段(duan),電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)低了對行業(ye)發(fa)展(zhan)是(shi)不(bu)(bu)利的(de)(de)(de)(de)。前期投(tou)資多(duo)少年(nian),不(bu)(bu)說(shuo)多(duo)少,就說(shuo)我們從去年(nian)示范電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)站申(shen)報以(yi)來(lai)(lai)到現在(zai)(zai)(zai)半(ban)年(nian)多(duo)了,這(zhe)(zhe)半(ban)年(nian)多(duo)大多(duo)數人是(shi)沒(mei)有(you)(you)收益的(de)(de)(de)(de),在(zai)(zai)(zai)那苦熬著,光(guang)這(zhe)(zhe)個(ge)損失就有(you)(you)多(duo)少,再熬兩(liang)年(nian)估計有(you)(you)些企業(ye)今(jin)天(tian)在(zai)(zai)(zai)這(zhe)(zhe)兒開(kai)會,下(xia)次開(kai)會就不(bu)(bu)在(zai)(zai)(zai)這(zhe)(zhe)兒了。所以(yi)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)很(hen)讓(rang)人糾結。我覺得培育期應該給一(yi)點好(hao)點的(de)(de)(de)(de)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia),但(dan)是(shi)國家又(you)沒(mei)有(you)(you)這(zhe)(zhe)個(ge)財力,拿不(bu)(bu)出那么多(duo)錢(qian)。傳說(shuo)中的(de)(de)(de)(de)1塊1把(ba)兩(liang)件事情放(fang)在(zai)(zai)(zai)一(yi)起了,一(yi)個(ge)是(shi)培育扶持(chi),一(yi)個(ge)是(shi)要把(ba)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)的(de)(de)(de)(de)成本(ben)降下(xia)來(lai)(lai),這(zhe)(zhe)的(de)(de)(de)(de)確是(shi)很(hen)難的(de)(de)(de)(de)。
我(wo)(wo)(wo)們(men)在(zai)融(rong)資的(de)過程中很多投資商想投這個(ge)(ge)(ge)項(xiang)(xiang)目(mu),一(yi)(yi)(yi)看(kan)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)這么(me)低他不(bu)愿意(yi)(yi)投,因為(wei)保證(zheng)不(bu)了(le)收益(yi)率。但(dan)回過頭來(lai)講,高(gao)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)比(bi)(bi)低電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)好,但(dan)有電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)總比(bi)(bi)沒電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)好。如果我(wo)(wo)(wo)們(men)再拖半年(nian)(nian)一(yi)(yi)(yi)年(nian)(nian)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)定(ding)不(bu)下來(lai),糾結(jie)這個(ge)(ge)(ge)事情,估計很多企(qi)業(ye)就(jiu)搞不(bu)下去(qu)了(le),挫(cuo)傷了(le)大(da)(da)多數人的(de)積(ji)極性。所以(yi)我(wo)(wo)(wo)覺得有電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)應(ying)該早點(dian)下,沒有電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)很多事情是(shi)(shi)(shi)沒辦法進行(xing)的(de),為(wei)什么(me)我(wo)(wo)(wo)們(men)苦熬,就(jiu)是(shi)(shi)(shi)這種情況,去(qu)融(rong)資,都說(shuo)項(xiang)(xiang)目(mu)很好,等電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)。包括(kuo)到(dao)銀行(xing)貸款,銀行(xing)說(shuo)你(ni)(ni)沒電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)我(wo)(wo)(wo)無法給你(ni)(ni)貸款,所以(yi)有電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)比(bi)(bi)沒電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)好,早下比(bi)(bi)晚(wan)下好。難度(du)(du)肯定(ding)增加,低電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)增加了(le)光熱(re)發電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)行(xing)業(ye)的(de)難度(du)(du)。整個(ge)(ge)(ge)行(xing)業(ye)要(yao)(yao)團結(jie)起來(lai),大(da)(da)家共同把造價(jia)(jia)(jia)降下來(lai),必須要(yao)(yao)同心協(xie)力,否則大(da)(da)家都為(wei)了(le)保障自己的(de)利益(yi),造價(jia)(jia)(jia)下不(bu)來(lai),高(gao)點(dian)的(de)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)也(ye)要(yao)(yao)虧(kui)。當然各個(ge)(ge)(ge)單位(wei)(wei)情況不(bu)一(yi)(yi)(yi)樣(yang)(yang),有些單位(wei)(wei)財大(da)(da)氣粗(cu)虧(kui)一(yi)(yi)(yi)點(dian)我(wo)(wo)(wo)也(ye)要(yao)(yao)把項(xiang)(xiang)目(mu)拿下來(lai),把技術路線打通,行(xing)。并不(bu)是(shi)(shi)(shi)所有的(de)單位(wei)(wei)都愿意(yi)(yi)虧(kui)損(sun)(sun)來(lai)打通技術路線,電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)下來(lai)以(yi)后是(shi)(shi)(shi)多少年(nian)(nian)的(de),最后電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)站的(de)運行(xing)成(cheng)本各個(ge)(ge)(ge)方面控(kong)制不(bu)住,因為(wei)造價(jia)(jia)(jia)的(de)時候就(jiu)不(bu)完(wan)善,會處于長期(qi)虧(kui)損(sun)(sun)的(de)狀態。所以(yi)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)問題我(wo)(wo)(wo)現(xian)在(zai)不(bu)好說(shuo),關于電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)衷心希望實行(xing)普(pu)惠(hui)(hui)制度(du)(du)。不(bu)要(yao)(yao)指定(ding)哪幾(ji)個(ge)(ge)(ge)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)站什么(me)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia),而是(shi)(shi)(shi)同期(qi)建(jian)(jian)設(she)同期(qi)發電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)享受什么(me)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia)。這樣(yang)(yang)不(bu)是(shi)(shi)(shi)給進入示范項(xiang)(xiang)目(mu)名單的(de)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)站電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia),而是(shi)(shi)(shi)給一(yi)(yi)(yi)個(ge)(ge)(ge)普(pu)惠(hui)(hui)政策。只要(yao)(yao)是(shi)(shi)(shi)同期(qi)建(jian)(jian)設(she),在(zai)發改委規定(ding)的(de)時間里發電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)建(jian)(jian)完(wan)了(le)你(ni)(ni)就(jiu)享受這個(ge)(ge)(ge)電(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)(dian)價(jia)(jia)(jia),這樣(yang)(yang)可(ke)以(yi)調(diao)動(dong)很多企(qi)業(ye)的(de)積(ji)極性,做的(de)更好一(yi)(yi)(yi)點(dian)。
最(zui)后(hou)(hou)說兩點建(jian)(jian)(jian)議(yi),習(xi)主席、李克強(qiang)總理新(xin)的(de)(de)中(zhong)央領導班子上來(lai)以后(hou)(hou)有很(hen)(hen)多改革的(de)(de)措施,但(dan)是(shi)落到項目上以后(hou)(hou)基本上很(hen)(hen)少。新(xin)能源搞到現在,從風電、光(guang)伏,現在到光(guang)熱,回頭看(kan)看(kan)很(hen)(hen)多問題、很(hen)(hen)多方法都是(shi)不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)可(ke)取(qu)的(de)(de)。光(guang)熱早晚還走風電、光(guang)伏火井噴式的(de)(de)爆發、惡性競爭,最(zui)后(hou)(hou)產(chan)能過剩(sheng)的(de)(de)老(lao)路。所以要(yao)(yao)(yao)有新(xin)思(si)路。國家宏觀的(de)(de)要(yao)(yao)(yao)管(guan)住(zhu),整(zheng)了半天,每個(ge)(ge)電站建(jian)(jian)(jian)都要(yao)(yao)(yao)審批,最(zui)后(hou)(hou)宏觀失控(kong),產(chan)能過剩(sheng)。我希望在管(guan)理思(si)路上,引進一(yi)(yi)些新(xin)的(de)(de)管(guan)理思(si)路,宏觀一(yi)(yi)定要(yao)(yao)(yao)管(guan)住(zhu),不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)要(yao)(yao)(yao)亂(luan),但(dan)是(shi)微觀要(yao)(yao)(yao)放開。企業(ye)(ye)是(shi)市(shi)場(chang)的(de)(de)主體,他去決策,他是(shi)虧損(sun)還是(shi)不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)虧損(sun),干還是(shi)不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)干企業(ye)(ye)自己定,每個(ge)(ge)企業(ye)(ye)跟每個(ge)(ge)企業(ye)(ye)特點不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)一(yi)(yi)樣,你干虧損(sun)并不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)一(yi)(yi)定別人干也虧損(sun),你干不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)出(chu)來(lai)并不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)一(yi)(yi)定別人就干不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)出(chu)來(lai)。所以從結(jie)果看(kan)問題,而不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)要(yao)(yao)(yao)追(zhui)究細節,市(shi)場(chang)能解決的(de)(de)問題一(yi)(yi)定要(yao)(yao)(yao)讓市(shi)場(chang)解決,不(bu)(bu)(bu)(bu)要(yao)(yao)(yao)政府官員替(ti)企業(ye)(ye)著急(ji),把(ba)關。所以在思(si)路上建(jian)(jian)(jian)議(yi)調整(zheng)一(yi)(yi)下,在光(guang)熱發電這(zhe)個(ge)(ge)新(xin)的(de)(de)行業(ye)(ye)啟動的(de)(de)時候引入一(yi)(yi)些新(xin)的(de)(de)機制,競爭的(de)(de)機制、市(shi)場(chang)的(de)(de)機制,壯大一(yi)(yi)個(ge)(ge)平(ping)臺。
比如我(wo)們(men)是(shi)民營(ying),我(wo)們(men)去貸(dai)款(kuan)起碼都(dou)是(shi)百分之七、八,還(huan)要擔(dan)(dan)保公(gong)司(si)擔(dan)(dan)保。有些上市公(gong)司(si)融資渠道比較多(duo),可以(yi)(yi)拿到3%、4%,你的造價(jia)跟(gen)人家的造價(jia)沒(mei)法比,在(zai)很(hen)多(duo)方面是(shi)沒(mei)法比的。所以(yi)(yi)我(wo)們(men)不(bu)要集中在(zai)電價(jia)上,還(huan)要考慮政策(ce)層面。
舉一個例子(zi),我們(men)電(dian)(dian)站建的(de)(de)時候開始是(shi)(shi)草(cao)地(di),說把草(cao)原占(zhan)了(le)(le)(le)要收多少錢,我們(men)都交(jiao)(jiao)了(le)(le)(le)。林業(ye)又說這是(shi)(shi)林業(ye)用地(di),你還(huan)得交(jiao)(jiao)一筆(bi),到底是(shi)(shi)草(cao)原還(huan)是(shi)(shi)林地(di)。規劃方面我們(men)是(shi)(shi)兩眼摸黑,進去以后有很多問題(ti),并不是(shi)(shi)說定了(le)(le)(le)電(dian)(dian)價什么問題(ti)都解決了(le)(le)(le),比如遷墳(fen)的(de)(de)問題(ti),這塊地(di)旁(pang)邊(bian)有墳(fen),一座(zuo)4000塊錢,20萬塊錢。不是(shi)(shi)說有了(le)(le)(le)電(dian)(dian)價光(guang)熱的(de)(de)發展所有都通了(le)(le)(le),所以政策(ce)配套(tao)的(de)(de)問題(ti)跟電(dian)(dian)價的(de)(de)問題(ti)要同等對待(dai)。
光(guang)熱(re)(re)發(fa)電(dian)有(you)一個(ge)(ge)(ge)比較大的(de)(de)優勢沒有(you)引起(qi)大家的(de)(de)重(zhong)(zhong)視,光(guang)熱(re)(re)發(fa)電(dian)的(de)(de)低(di)碳(tan)(tan)性。這(zhe)(zhe)段時間(jian)經常(chang)看一些(xie)文(wen)件講咱們(men)(men)國家能源(yuan)怎么(me)發(fa)展(zhan),現在(zai)(zai)有(you)很(hen)多問(wen)(wen)題(ti)。前(qian)(qian)面(mian)(mian)火(huo)電(dian)資產太大,誰都不(bu)(bu)(bu)敢碰,我知(zhi)道前(qian)(qian)面(mian)(mian)有(you)一個(ge)(ge)(ge)配額制,要想上100萬的(de)(de)火(huo)電(dian)必(bi)須上5萬多少的(de)(de)風(feng)電(dian)或光(guang)伏,大家都以(yi)為這(zhe)(zhe)是對(dui)新(xin)(xin)能源(yuan)的(de)(de)支(zhi)持。回過(guo)頭來(lai)想一想,這(zhe)(zhe)么(me)多年(nian)下來(lai),火(huo)電(dian)發(fa)展(zhan)多快,風(feng)電(dian)發(fa)展(zhan)多快,現在(zai)(zai)說風(feng)電(dian)發(fa)展(zhan)太快了(le),所(suo)以(yi)現在(zai)(zai)要棄(qi)風(feng)、棄(qi)光(guang)。實(shi)際上還(huan)有(you)將近四、五(wu)(wu)百GW火(huo)電(dian)還(huan)沒建,“十三五(wu)(wu)”光(guang)熱(re)(re)發(fa)電(dian)10個(ge)(ge)(ge)GW這(zhe)(zhe)么(me)費(fei)勁,那邊有(you)幾百個(ge)(ge)(ge)GW等著(zhu)發(fa)展(zhan)。所(suo)以(yi)有(you)人說新(xin)(xin)能源(yuan)發(fa)展(zhan)不(bu)(bu)(bu)是太快,而(er)是我們(men)(men)煤電(dian)退的(de)(de)太慢了(le)。煤電(dian)不(bu)(bu)(bu)管做什(shen)么(me)改造,脫硫、粉塵各方面(mian)(mian)改造,畢竟排(pai)除不(bu)(bu)(bu)了(le)一個(ge)(ge)(ge)問(wen)(wen)題(ti),二(er)氧(yang)化碳(tan)(tan)的(de)(de)排(pai)放。你(ni)要燒(shao),怎么(me)燒(shao)能不(bu)(bu)(bu)燒(shao)出(chu)二(er)氧(yang)化碳(tan)(tan),但(dan)是在(zai)(zai)低(di)碳(tan)(tan)問(wen)(wen)題(ti)上我們(men)(men)很(hen)多人不(bu)(bu)(bu)重(zhong)(zhong)視。我今(jin)年(nian)最大的(de)(de)一個(ge)(ge)(ge)體(ti)會是厄(e)爾尼諾現象,南方春節開始到現在(zai)(zai)天天下雨(yu),6月下雪、6月下冰雹。這(zhe)(zhe)不(bu)(bu)(bu)是PM2.5的(de)(de)問(wen)(wen)題(ti),是地球變暖(nuan)的(de)(de)問(wen)(wen)題(ti),所(suo)以(yi)低(di)碳(tan)(tan)的(de)(de)問(wen)(wen)題(ti)我們(men)(men)一定要重(zhong)(zhong)視,煤電(dian)退了(le),光(guang)熱(re)(re)發(fa)電(dian)這(zhe)(zhe)個(ge)(ge)(ge)項(xiang)目(mu)才是最好的(de)(de)替代煤電(dian)的(de)(de)項(xiang)目(mu),這(zhe)(zhe)樣對(dui)光(guang)熱(re)(re)發(fa)電(dian)有(you)更好的(de)(de)促進作(zuo)用。增量發(fa)展(zhan)永遠趕(gan)不(bu)(bu)(bu)上,因為體(ti)量太大了(le),他發(fa)展(zhan)1%,你(ni)發(fa)展(zhan)10%也趕(gan)不(bu)(bu)(bu)上。所(suo)以(yi)第(di)二(er)個(ge)(ge)(ge)建議,從(cong)(cong)更長遠的(de)(de)利(li)益,從(cong)(cong)更高(gao)的(de)(de)利(li)益來(lai)強調光(guang)熱(re)(re)發(fa)電(dian)的(de)(de)重(zhong)(zhong)要意義。
清(qing)潔能(neng)源、新能(neng)源、可再生(sheng)能(neng)源幾個(ge)概(gai)念都是混(hun)的(de)(de),很簡單的(de)(de)一(yi)個(ge)問題,汽車叫(jiao)新能(neng)源汽車,不過不燒油了(le)(le),用電。如果你的(de)(de)電是火(huo)電發出(chu)來(lai)的(de)(de),污(wu)染(ran)減(jian)少了(le)(le)嗎?不過城市(shi)里減(jian)少了(le)(le),農村(cun)增加了(le)(le),這(zhe)怎么叫(jiao)新能(neng)源。所以很多問題我們的(de)(de)概(gai)念是亂的(de)(de),要好好捋(lv)一(yi)捋(lv)。所以要從根兒(er)上改。我們更要強調低碳性。
開會的時候也有(you)碳(tan)(tan)交(jiao)易的企業跟我們談(tan),如果(guo)我們現在(zai)(zai)不(bu)重視(shi)這個問題(ti),過十幾年,在(zai)(zai)低碳(tan)(tan)交(jiao)易上(shang),在(zai)(zai)碳(tan)(tan)排放上(shang),我們要花很多錢。因為你要排放,二(er)氧化碳(tan)(tan)要排放就要交(jiao)錢,到那個時候后(hou)悔就來不(bu)及了。
謝謝大家!